Hopes for the September Forbidden/Limited List

tyreeWith the September Banned/Restricted list being about a month away, I know a lot of players are looking forward to change as many people find the current format a tad boring with Spellbooks and Dragons being at the top. Through various sources such as V-Jump we will most likely know the September list in just a few weeks; I’m here to share my thoughts on what I would like to happen on the list (within the realm of reason)  rather than what I think Konami will do  so keep that in mind while reading. I do not want to see Dragons or Spellbooks get destroyed, I just want them to be watered down some and for the other decks to be more balanced along with them and of course I also want to try and avoid disasters later down in the format , but let’s get onto the list.

Newly Forbidden:

[ccProd]Card Destruction[/ccProd] [ccProd]Super Rejuvenation[/ccProd]

 

dragoonsNewly Limited to One:

[ccProd]Atlantean Dragoons[/ccProd] [ccProd]Evilswarm Ophion[/ccProd]

Number 11: Big Eye

[ccProd]Rekindling[/ccProd] [ccProd]Rescue Rabbit[/ccProd] [ccProd]Spellbook of Judgment[/ccProd] [ccProd]Spellbook of Secrets[/ccProd]

 

Newly Limited to Two:

[ccProd]Deep Sea Diva[/ccProd]

Fire Formation - Tenki

[ccProd]Gold Sarcophagus[/ccProd]

 

thunder kingNewly Unrestricted:

[ccProd]Scapegoat[/ccProd]

Thunder King Rai-Oh

[ccProd]Tsukuyomi[/ccProd]

 

[ccProd]Card Destruction[/ccProd]

This card is more problematic now than it has been before. In the past, you didn’t want to Darkworld see this card in their hand, ditching copies of Snoww, Grapha, and Broww to gain infinite advantage and getting rid of yours. Now with Dragon Rulers in the mix it is potentially even worse especially when you add [ccProd]Super Rejuvenation[/ccProd], and even they don’t have Rejuv them ditching a hand full of Dragons which can be brought back at anytime for a brand new hand doesn’t seem all that fair to me. Seeing this card in your hand makes it really hard for you to lose a lot of the time. The minus one that Card D is isn’t so much of a minus for the decks that run it nowadays. I feel like it really is time for this card to go on the Forbidden list.

Super Rejuvenation[ccProd]Super Rejuvenation[/ccProd]

At this point we should all know why this card needs to go. Every time my opponent ditches 4 dragons and makes and Dracossack I’m like anyone else and pray that they don’t follow it up with this card. It is so hard to come back from the advantage gained from that play, especially if you aren’t running Dragons yourself. I really don’t think Dragon Rulers need 3 [ccProd]Pot of Greed[/ccProd]s (at the minimum) to be a good deck; the Dragons themselves are pseudo-floaters that can be brought back at almost any point. Activating Rejuv to gain 6+ cards in the end phase is dumb enough, it turns full on ignorant when they hit another one and get another 6 cards. Combine this card with Seven Star Sword and Card Destruction, and it’s only a matter of time until your backrows get blown away by [ccProd]Heavy Storm[/ccProd]. This card needs to go.

[ccProd]Atlantean Dragoons[/ccProd]

Some people forgot that Water was once a top deck and it’s not too hard for that to happen again especially with some of the new cards coming out in Judgment of the Light. I feel like a limit of this card is needed to keep this deck in check so it doesn’t become too powerful after hitting the other decks. Limiting Dragoons only reduces the consistency of the deck without killing it off entirely. It can search for practically any monster you want in the deck, has a 1800 body, and decent effect to go along with it.  Things get crazy when you open with 2 of these, like your opponent going from 8000 to 0 in a turn or 2. This card going to one seems reasonable.

[ccProd]Evilswarm Ophion[/ccProd]

This card has been the bane for many players since the day it came out. Shutting off the summoning of Lv5 or higher monster is no joke especially Evilswarms revolve around making this card, and it can also search a card which protects it from spells and traps. When playing a deck that revolves around playing high level monsters, not being able to play isn’t fun. With all these new Synchros coming out in the next set, they won’t be able to see much play if Evilswarm is at its full power, so putting this card to one seems fair. Staring down double Ophion almost guarantees you going first in the next game. It’s not like Evilswarms are dead either as the deck has many other rank 4s it can spit out, you can recycle Ophion if needed through the use of Kerykion or save it using [ccProd]Infestation Infection[/ccProd].

number 11 big eyeNumber 11: Big Eye

3 [ccProd]Snatch Steal[/ccProd]s with a 2600 body in the Extra deck hardly seems fair to me. Dragons can make this card way too easily, and make it so practically any monster you put on the board is as good as your opponents. It not being able to attack isn’t really a drawback at all as the monster you take can still attack and it’s yours to keep. Putting this card at one stops all of the “Big Eye wars” and them getting summoned turn after turn.

[ccProd]Rekindling[/ccProd]

With Rooster and Wolfbark coming in Judgment of the Light, bringing the 3-axis Firefist to the TCG soon only makes this card even more powerful than it was in the past. Special summoning 5 monsters from your graveyard with one card has never been healthy for the game, and now we are going to have another deck which can use this card to that potential. I’m pretty sure everybody has felt some sort of emotion when your opponent tops [ccProd]Rekindling[/ccProd] and wins because of it, I don’t know about anybody else but I want as little of that as possible.

[ccProd]Rescue Rabbit[/ccProd]

The bunny has been at 2 long enough and it’s about time it goes down to 1. Rabbit+Tour Guide may not be a thing right now, but it has been in the past and can be in the future, back to back Rabbits a lot of the time can be too much for somebody to handle. I’ve had the misfortune plenty of time playing against Evilswarms and Veiler’ing a Rabbit, just for them to summon another the next turn. I would leave Rabbit alone, if it didn’t lead to ridiculous XYZs that it does.

Spellbook of SecretsSpellbook of Judgment/Spellbook of Secrets

I figured I would put these two together since they are in the same deck in all. When you first read Judgment it just screams broken, adding Spellbooks to your hand in the end phase equal to the spells you use and special summoning a free monster. It can create total lockdown when you bring out Kycoo or Jowgen and have [ccProd]Spellbook of Fate[/ccProd] to back it up. Having Judgment turn after turn just makes it so there is no way for your opponent to combat you, or even play half the time. Getting Justice off Judgment adding Priestess and another Judgment to the hand along with the other Books you got leads to a slaughter. Some might see as putting [ccProd]Spellbook of Secrets[/ccProd] as well as Judgment as overkill, but you have to remember you also have 3 Spellbook Magicians to search for anything including Secrets. So right now you effectively have 6 Secrets in your deck, having 6 searchers seems like a bit much. Putting both these to one doesn’t outright kill the deck but just tones it down to a level to where other decks can keep up with it.

[ccProd]Gold Sarcophagus[/ccProd]

It’s not on the level of Spellbook of Secrets in my opinion, but it’s still a pretty powerful card in Dragons, turning into a plus when you banish a Dragon. Having access to 3 Reinforcements in a deck as powerful as Dragons seems a bit unbalanced to me. I would like to see this card at least go to 2.

Fire Formation – Tenki

Putting the Fire Fist themed RotA to 2 seems fitting just like the rest. The new version of Fire Fist doesn’t rely on Tenki like the builds before, so it shouldn’t hurt too badly. The deck is getting amazing support in the next set and putting this to 2 will (hopefully) keep this deck in check along with Rekindling at one.  I would get tired of seeing a Tenki stream quite fast.

Thunder King Rai-Oh

I think it’s safe to say this guy can go back up to 3 again. He doesn’t hold the power that he used to when Wind-Ups, Agents, and Geargias were at the top, 1900 isn’t the magic number anymore. Thunder King at 3 wouldn’t be detrimental to the game and he does help keep things under control.

Tsukuyomi[ccProd]Tsukuyomi[/ccProd]

The days of killing Monarchs and flipping Spies down with this card are long gone; Tsuk could come back to 3 and cause no problems whatsoever. It actually helps break up locks that you are under like Ophion, Kycoo, Jowgen, and [ccProd]Naturia Beast[/ccProd] or Barkion. Some people might feel like the 2 copies are enough and some don’t even side it at all, so it being at 3 probably won’t affect much

[ccProd]Scapegoat[/ccProd]

Once again, Goat Control days are over and this card can come back at 3 and be just fine. It is seeing next to no play right now being at one, and  you most likely won’t see new age Goat Control decks pop up at Regionals or the next YCS either. It will either continue to see no play, or some people might try playing it in a deck revolving around Plasma or some Synchro variants which doesn’t seem all that degenerate to me, it actually would be something I would probably play around with at locals.

Alright well that’s it for this article,with Spellbooks and Dragons being at the top I am looking forward to some change and new decks. I hope the changes I would like to see don't seem too radical. Try not to burn me alive in the comments below and hopefully I won’t be seen as psychotic for what I would like to see on the list.

Discussion

comments

  • matthewmilad

    Lol Big Eye at 1 and Scapegoat at 3, but even those awful hits don’t make you look anywhere near as dumb as Patrick.

  • Jeorg Talbert

    Tyree you and I are apparently the only people in the world who recommend Diva go to 2.

  • Zach Taylor

    Honestly this is legitimately pretty much what I’d hope for and almost exact to what my banlist was in my head. Unfortunately Konami isn’t always so nice. But this is a pretty fair list. I mean hell with this I could imagine Dragons still being very playable. My only hope and addition would be to limit the baby dragons, but I’m sure this would never happen.

  • AliasNorth

    Disappointing article, very low quality. Many typos, bland and hard to read layout. One thing I don’t understand is you have Card Destruction under restricted, but them immediately after, list it as unrestricted and unlimited? You also want Scapegoat to come back at 3? I’m sorry, but do you not remember how powerful plants were? A Scapegoat at turn 2 or 3 and you could easily drop almost any synchro in the game or you could have a great wall to your life points. While I love the card, unlimiting it isn’t right, especially with all the great new support soon to come.

    I also disagree with your opinion of Gold Sarcophagus. It should go to 2, when the only deck that can abuse it is Dragon Rulers? I’m not sure how that’s fair to literally every other deck that may want to run it, when limiting each of the baby dragons, the monsters that add the consistency to the deck, load the graveyard, tutor your dragons, and boost Rejuvenation is a MUCH better idea. On that topic, if you were to just limit the baby dragons, then Rejuvenation wouldn’t even be a problem. Take a look at the OCG’s game: before they have the baby dragons, the deck wasn’t topping at all in the OCG. You also want to limit a card barely even viable in today’s meta, Rescue Rabbit? Sure, he was the nuts two formats or so ago, but now opening with him is only a pleasant surprise, not an auto-win.

    Recycling Ophion is almost impossible, as is recycling all XYZ monsters, the only practical way is through XYZ Reborn or Pot of Avarice, both of which are dead early game. Ophion obviously can’t stay at 3, since any deck that can completely stop all others is bad for the game, but 1 just seems like you have a personal beef with the deck.

    Pretty much everything else I can agree with, except…

    You forgot to put Shapesnatch at 1.

    • Robert Jordan

      recycling ophion almost impossible? pretty sure you can do it with kerkyion

  • Mario Rivera

    3 goats is a broken defensive wall

    • Robert Jordan

      im pretty sure it wont cause a problem. Any deck running triple goats probably isnt a good one.

  • Johnny Site Li

    Tyree, your article inspired me to make this http://imgur.com/CImKfoB

    • Clyde Lester Camero

      LOL’ed so hard xD

    • Bryant Greaves

      I laughed WAY too hard at this

  • Nikki Pattison

    Good list, though i think Dragons Rulers need to get hit a little harder maybe bring sarc to 1 since it is ran in 2’s in most decks. Bring Tsuk to 3 and Ophion to 1 is a little crazy cause as soon as they make Ophion u will have the Tsuk waiting. Rabbit is a toss up for me yes hes been around to long now and can cause some problem through Xyz’s but that would put so many decks out of commission, Evilswarm being one with Ophion at 1 and rabbit at 1 the deck loses all consistency. Tenki also needs to be at 1 with it at 2 they can easily search Leopard/Spirit tensu make Prince get Rooster and plus again its just to much the deck is ridiculous and will be faster than anything else in the format, and will again be a run this deck or lose format. But other than those quarls i think its a great list, and good article.

    • Robert Jordan

      but realistically who is gonna be running 3 tsukuyomi? I believe that tenki should go to 1 as well but that doesnt seem likely with a new build of fire fist that hasnt gotten to be played in tcg yet.

  • Donnell Washington

    This article is well written and a fine WISH List. Why would anyone complain?!

  • Niels Peetoom

    Just give those dragon rulers the Harpie ruling of only 3 of a kind

  • Marco Bonechi

    Sounds good. It seems the right way for a good metagame. Good article!

  • Jesse Vela

    Konami is not gonna kill prophecy/spellbooks when their true potential hasn’t been used yet other than this anti meta spellcaster spellbook beat down that is currently being used. I see “Spellbook of Fate being limited and Spellbook Magician of Prophecy also being limited. Judgment will go untouched.

  • Tiffany Marie Junk

    Timothy Yang apparently has never made a mistake before… Nice to meet you.

  • Jonathan Sonora

    Limiting Rekindling cause of Chicken and Wolfbark? You do realize Both those cards are not 200 DEF targets? I mean Rekindle only tops in Lavals but are they topping? Not really, so I can’t really see how Rekindling can be limited. 3 Axis doesn’t even need Rekindling or rely on it so heavily cause of Spirits synergy. Spirit is pretty much a rekindling of it’s own. Maybe Rekindle down at 2 but not to 1, just leave it up to Konami kid.

    • Nikki Pattison

      Rekindle brings back Spirit and Leopard making even more synchros in an already insanely fast deck I have been testing it at 2 and it is crazy enough the plays you can make and what you can end with. Ending with a full field of big monsters and the ability to recycle your stuff next turn is crippling.

  • Gravekeeper Peasent

    Seems reasonable enough to create a fairly balanced format, but that’s precisely why Konami won’t do this.

  • Pearson Joshua Batitto

    With the exception of hitting Ophion I quite enjoy this list. And I play Fire Fists, lol, before someone thinks I’m just glad you hit them in advance. Since there’s a new card coming out that instantly beats Ophion he just doesn’t belong in limimted. Maybe Semi because 3 is just too hard for an opponent to deal with seeing how Ophion is “the deck”. I shouldn’t have to basically beat them 3 times to win one game.

    • Chris Austen

      Lol we never back 3 Ophion’s in a duel ever, that’s bad and the person is a scrub of the deck then. You only need to make 1 per duel, if that but if it dies. Then you make the second one as back-up or use Xyz reborn, to ensure you have an Ophion on board as long as possible. If you think we should have 3, no swarm player would even run that at 3, maybe a new player to the deck. But not someone who has,experience with the deck. As swarm is more of a toolbox Xyz deck than anything (fact) , due to the decks ability to easily make rank 4 monsters, and make Ophion. So it doesn’t get OTK’d by other decks.

      • tbj55

        Not really.

        You win plenty of duels against Dragon Rulers by making 1st Turn Ophion, protecting it against Blaster/Tsuk, then getting two more Evilswarms on the field to make another Ophion MP2.

        He’s saying you should run 3 Ophion in the Extra deck (not playing 3 on the field, which is what I think you’re saying), which you really should have been this format. There honestly is enough space for it in the Extra Deck right now, so I’m not sure why you wouldn’t.

        • Chris Austen

          Xyz reborn is a card you know that right, and right now not really , you should be testing the deck out with Key beetle which is soon to be legal, and more than anything you want to be running 2/3 copies of this card by default. For the Ophion + Key Beetle + Safe Zone lock.

      • Robert Jordan

        Evilswarms arent a toolbox deck they are a make ophion deck or make bahamut when your opponent has a monster that can get rid of ophion already. They dont regularly make a bunch of different xyz’s

        • Chris Austen

          Actually they do, you seem really ignorant about swarm in general. Let’s give a little example about that, an extra deck consistent’s of 15 monsters total/top. Ophion will take 2/3 spots based of the players preference of the deck, take away 2/3 spots for Bahmut. Most players pick 2 spots for the card, so you only have 9-11 spots based of preference. Which leaves the final spots to whatever the player feels to run the final 9-11 spots for good Xyz monsters which are used. A first turn Ophion play is normal for the deck, because it allows to start protecting the monster. Gem-Knight pearl, Mastroke, Cowboy and Pappy are staples for the extra deck. Each being just as useful as the other monsters. Furthermore would you call an e.dragon deck a make Dracosack or Big eye deck then, a Madolche deck a make a Trimusu deck or Fairy king deck. Or would you call draguintie’s a make stardust deck ? Or even Hieratic’s a make Atum deck ?

          • Robert Jordan

            No because evilswarms either make ophion or lose. Dragons dont have to make dracossack as they can still otk you. Most of the spots in the evilswarm extra deck are barely utilized at all. Besides ophion the other 13 xyz monsters probably get made a combined 1 time in a match and thats for all 12-13 of them.

        • Chris Austen

          And lastly, if we are facing any deck’s that spam high level monsters, inc. Dragunity, hieratics, Karakuri , Mermail (they can OTK), e.dragons, plants, lavals and Junk of course we make another Ophion. To control the duel, otherwise we would lose..

    • AliasNorth

      The only time Verz makes triple Ophion is if it is a direct counter to your deck, in which case, just be glad they didn’t make Bahamut, a themed Big Eye, to steal your monster.

      • Robert Jordan

        Be glad! Im perfect fine with them having to use more cards to use bahamut more power to them!

  • Robert Jordan

    The thing about putting ophion to 1 is that its a card that can pretty much allow you to not be able to play the game depending on what deck is playing. Its a boss monster that not only searches cards that will either protect it(pandemic) but can also search a card that will help you make more copies of ophion(infestation) which is kinda stupid.

  • Chris Austen

    Wants Tysokimi to go back to 3, yet we only have one Ophion apparently, seems fair ? Nope.

    • Pearson Joshua Batitto

      You can’t even spell the card correctly so I assume you’re an Evilswarm player,

      • Anonymous

        Please clorox yourself. Thanks

    • jojo69

      ophion makes a dozen decks unplayable. it is unhealthy for the game. so yes, it should be limited

  • jojo69

    i like this list, i would only disagree with two cards. rabbit and scapegoat. rabbit is balanced in my opinion because while it is a very good card, it forces you to run bad cards, the vanillas. so being forced to run bad cards in order to run good ones creates balance. additionally you have the possibility of drawing the rabbit AND the vanillas. which is crippling. and scapegoat… bumping it straight to three seems kind of scary. maybe just put it to 2 first and see what happens

  • Bryant Greaves

    Good article, but I’m really interested in the list you’d write if you weren’t constrained to thinking about what’s realistic.

  • Anonymous

    Tyree, I personally don’t think your list restricts the power of Dragons enough.

    I mean sure, Rejuv and CD are broken, but the deck can still function very well without them. I mean just look at Frazier Smith’s build at Nationals. He ran a deck that fits into your “hopes” and he still topped at a premier event. No rejuv, no CD, 2 Gold Sarc.

    I feel like the synergy of the dragons needs to be broken up more in order for it to become more balanced. But how do we do that? I’m not experienced enough with dragons to know exactly.
    I only know that before the baby dragons were released in the OCG, Dragons lacked a lot of its consistency and thus, failed to do well. But at the same time, I don’t think Konami will hit any of the babies.

    • Bryant Greaves

      Wow, I completely agree with this comment. What is the world coming to???

    • Tyree Tinsley

      Yeah I see what your saying on that. I was thinking that hitting the babies in some was since after looking back on the list Dragons still look a tad too powerful for the September format.

      • Chris Austen

        I don’t get why hit Ophion for ? You do know Xyz encore is card right ? and if your deck loses to one Ophion, will make a better main deck, and side harder for it then. It’s not tat hard really, like players can side in double even triple mind drain if e.dragons are such a threat to there deck. Or even main one and one wall, to deal with e.dragons. If your deck has such a bad match-up to them. People are ignorant and forget they can side cards against decks/boss monsters that hurt them.

        • Bryant Greaves

          Tyree didn’t “forget”, he just realizes the fact that in real life we don’t always draw our sided cards or that sometimes our opponent has the answer to them. Also, why are people so desperate to protect Ophion?

          • Chris Austen

            Because we don’t want people to play the OTK game that’s why, Hieratics, Dragunity, and Kakuri. Hieartics and Kakuri and can OTK with ease, and draguinity can spam the field and create a massive field presence and win. Yes Hieratics have lost some of its consistency but can still OTK with a lot of ease, so can Kakuri and maintain a massive hand size after going off. Also why do people panic about Ophion for, e.g I make it first turn, detach and get pandemic. You go, in game 2/3 sided in 2 maybe 3 Xyz encoures. And first turn you could just use encore, and I can’t even respond to that.

          • Bryant Greaves

            I really respect you for actually answering that question, since most people just say “screw u man ophione 4everrrr” I hate OTK decks also (who doesn’t?), but I feel like Ophion is just too much. It’s ridiculous the sheer number of decks and strategies that card completely invalidates. Over-aggressive decks DO suck, but the other extreme isn’t any more desirable. It’s just as annoying to be chained down by a wall of backrow and beaten by a giant, overprotected monster.

          • Chris Austen

            I know Ophion hurts a lot of decks in the game (fact). But I like playing the protect game a lot, because it means I can play a budget tier 1 deck, and not drop up to a $1000 (when dragons + prophecy were topping every event , i.e ; since they came out) on cards that don’t get me a cash return, also in terms of the sheer number of decks it hurts look at it this way, notice how most of the newer decks coming out are low level, which means Ophion won’t be that good in the coming format. Yes scyro’s are going to see more play most likely, but the majory of the decks coming out, don’t s.s monsters level five or higher. Bujin’s, 3 axis and 4 axis are going to see play, ghostricks another new archtype and war god’s are virtually all new archetypes. That don’t s.s high level monsters, so that’s my thoughts towards why Ophion won’t get hit.

          • pixeel

            are u forgetting LADD, LADD on first turn by a dragon player requires a whole waste of a beginning hand which most of times is game. don t forget about it because at the start of the season LADD was the card that killed every other form of deck

          • Anonymous

            lol against Dragons? Because if Ophion is not sufficiently protected, Dragons go off and the lswarm player loses. (generally speaking)

        • Anonymous

          Now I’m not completely disagreeing with you, but I feel like your logic is flawed. That’s like saying we shouldn’t ban Chaos Emperor Dragon because we “can side cards against” it. Yeah, we have Iron Wall and Vanity’s Emptiness to prevent it’s summon, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to be hit.

          Now I know that’s a different situation, but similar logic.

          • Chris Austen

            Yes because we want a game winning card to be legal again..Ophion does not win the player the duel, its get the person playing it a great lead in it, based of the match off. But if were not playing against Hiertics/Physics/e.dragons/and or mermail, its not going to be auto win at all.

          • Anonymous

            That’s a good point. Every format, people have to adjust to decks and side well. I actually play lswarms myself, and I don’t necessarily feel like it should be hit either. Getting two Ophions out can be hard sometimes.

            However, playing Devil’s Advocate, and trying to see Tyree’s perspective, let’s look at this closer.
            Against high-level decks, Ophion is not a guaranteed win by any means. However, bringing out TWO Ophions is very difficult to play around and could be considered “auto-win”.

            But when we talk about high-level decks, what will we have next format?
            Mermail (high-level)
            Triple Axis Fist (builds include blaster and lvl 5 synchro)
            Dragons (high-level)

            Spellbook (just priestess)
            Harpies (depends on build)

            Three of the predicted top 5 contenders above are high-level based decks. And with more than one Ophion out, it would be considered an “auto-win”.
            Thus, lswarm, if not hit, would be a top contender next format.

            …or this could be a bunch of bs and hype. Just like the dw hype a little while back.

          • pixeel

            but please, as a verz player i ve never, and i says never, put 2 ophions in one turn ( except for lucky meetings like reborn, or in late game xyz reborn)

          • Robert Jordan

            Not talkng about putting 2 ophions on board at same time just saying putting ophions on the board in consecutive turns.

          • Chris Austen

            There is no need to make Ophion consecutively unless playing against the following decks ; E.dragons, Hieratics, Draguinites, Dark Worlds, Mermails, Physcis , Blue eyes, Junk, Plants and Lavals (with the new structure deck online with all the support to drop Blue eyes with ease). Then Making Ophion twice, is more of a viable option, as it puts the swarm user in the edge to win the duel. Against other decks such as Madolche, Hearadics, Heroics, Six sam , Bujins (soon to be legal) , 4/3 axis, fire fist , fire kings to some degree, Ghostricks (soon to be legal as well). There is no need to make another Ophion , twice in a row.

          • AliasNorth

            Well, to be honest, if you drop Ophion on Fire Kings, they have no way to deal with it outside of Blaster of Bear, considering the Verz player has backrow.

          • Devin Morris

            l2 Book of Moon and cumpulse etc not hard to get around ophion i play evilswarms and ran into many ppl that had outs for it

          • Robert Jordan

            and out of the decks you names it is WAY more likely for you to be playing the decks which you will make Ophion in consecutive turns, so whatever point you were attempting to make is invalid

          • kidicarus86

            Yeah, you only need 2 ophion to stop every good deck of the format and maybe the next. sorry dude but you don’t know what you are talking about. Ophion needs to be limited.

          • Chris Austen

            Every good deck, that’s almost a joke. Because I sure as hell loved being OTK’D by other decks ? Nope. Draguinties thanks to Tempest OTK, Mermail, Heratic, Junks can OTK. What fun is that then ? If your opp is just going to OTK you.

          • Chris Austen

            + any decks that spams high level monsters.

        • Jesse Vela

          If anything hit pandemic and put ophion to 2

      • frank

        your version of the list is the most probable for dragons (though rejuv may go to 1 imo)
        hitting 4 babies is simply inefficient
        also, with the tins coming out they will not hit the deck too hard, they will just nerf its most broken plays a bit

  • Liquid
    • Tyree Tinsley

      Yeah I apologize for the mistake, my fault.

  • Alfonzo Esquire

    This is a horrible list, for multiple reasons. I’m sorry, but why the heck is this even here? There are multiple flaws with this, including but not limited too: Ophion being on the list, him saying Ophion can be saved with Infestation Infection, Judgment going to 1 when its not even a set old yet (granted it will be by the time the banlist comes around), and Tenki to 2.

    None of those are realistic, or reasonably sound. Tenki will not be hit due to the fact that there is new decks coming out in JOTL that kinda like Tenki (Bujin, improved 4-axis, 3-axis, Fire King), Ophion is only good because of the meta that we are currently in. Judgment is too new, and there are better ways to hit Spellbooks than Judgment (Fate for example, which if it were just banned would solve many problems). Rescue Rabbit shouldn’t go to 2 because the best play that we have seen with this format involving Rescue Rabbit is to go into Ophion (which we’ve already seen he doesn’t like). At 1 it would never be played.

    All in all, its a rather bad list. I know its what he wanted to get hit (within the ‘realm of reason’) but there wasn’t very much sound reasoning behind it. I’d like some of these too, but alot of it doesn’t make sense at all.

    • jojo69

      they don’t make sense for konami to hit, true. but this list is what HE THINKS should be hit, and what would make the next format more ENJOYABLE. and his reasons for why these limits and bans would make the next format more enjoyable ARE reasonably sound. like jesus kid, do you even read?

      • pixeel

        ophion in the next format will hit only horse prince. so llets ban it right? but please…

        • jojo69

          ophion also kills tons of rouge decks like karakuri, plants, the blue eyes deck, hieratics, agents, and the list goes on and fucking on. how fun is it to have half a dozen decks be totally unplayable thanks to a single cards existence? but besides that, i wasn’t defending his list, i was explaining that it is simply what he would like to happen. and he would like to see ophion limited. DO YOU PEOPLE EVEN FUCKING READ?

    • JDude042

      To counter your argument about Spellbook of Judgment going to 1, Infernity Launcher came out in The Shining Darkness in Japan on February 20, 2010, then was legal in the TCG upon release on May 11, 2010. You could run 3 copies and Infernity was clearly a dominant and powerful deck in the meta. Come September 1st 2010, Konami limited Infernity Launcher to 1 per deck. Having said that, I think your argument isn’t worth much unfortunately. Why would they leave alone a card that potentially can give you the same amount of advantage of having played 3 Pot of Greed in succession? I think Konami will at least put Super Rejuvenation to 1 on the September 2013 list. It only makes sense that they would do the same to Spellbook of Judgment, considering it’s an extremely similar card to Super Rejuvenation. Konami knew what they were doing when they made that, and I’m sure knew well ahead of time how obscene Super Rejuvenation would be with Dragon Rulers, and yet they still let that garbage slide for a format so they could push sales. They’ll limit both coming up because they don’t want to take away from sales of the new Fire Fist support and newer archetypes coming out in the future.

  • Anonymous

    Just fyi: Evilswarm Ophion, an Xyz Monster, cannot be used as the cost for Infestation Infection (can’t be shuffled into the MAIN deck).

    Just a minor error that I have to point out, before people start saying bad things about Tyree.

  • EcstazFredy

    I don’t think limiting judgment and/or secrets to 1 is realistic. I mean, if
    people would have their way they would cripple any deck that frustrates them.
    Limiting both knocks the deck a few levels (not one) considering this deck
    already has consistency issues; having 4 less cards in your deck means
    replacing them, adding inconsistency. I have played the deck enough to know
    that it depends on a 20-25 spellbook spell count. Limiting secrets and judgment
    would cause people to replace them with wisdom, power and other spellbooks that
    are very situational. Before judgment and with secrets at 3, it was hard enough
    to beat mermails and other decks but not impossible. So if judgment if dropped
    a peg or two, no problem but cutting secrets too is unrealistic.

    • jojo69

      how would you feel about limiting judgment and fate? that way you can only recycle one per turn with tower. meaning you can only play defense, or get massive plusses, once per turn. unless you play multiple spellbook of eternity to recycle the banished judgment. but then you have to run some more bad cards. and with only one fate spellbooks would be hard pressed to deal with big fields full of monsters. i think it’s a good idea. what about you?

  • Timothy Yang

    This guy is trash, u cant save An Extra deck evilswarm monster with infestation infection.

    • Tyree Tinsley

      Made a mistake about that part, I do apologize since my friend told me otherwise. Should have looked it up myself.

    • Clyde Lester Camero

      one person make a mistake and you call it trash, what a sound argument

    • jojo69

      he acidentally named the wrong infestation card. holy shit lets all fucking over-react for no god damn reason! -.- … this list is actually pretty fucking good

      • Anonymous

        Suck his dick more please.

        • jojo69

          holy shit more people over reacting. god you people are some over-sensitive pricks

  • Jenny Stein

    Excellent banlist proposition. The only thing I would change would be switching Rekindling and Tenki’s places on the list, or putting Tenki to 1 in general. The card is just too splashable in so many decks at this point.

    • AliasNorth

      They have to push the new Bujin cards, which, until Shadow Specters, are going to be underpowered without Bujin, and the new wave 1 Dragon Ruler tins will have Fire Fist – Bear as a super, so it won’t be hit. The problem with Tenki is that it’s a continuous spell and the cards it search can just search another Tenki.

  • Tim NoneYa

    Rabbit and Rekindling won’t get hit. Neither were a problem this format. Diva isn’t what makes Mermails good. Evilswarm aren’t even a deck without Ophion. It won’t get hit to one. Judgment at one hardly stops the deck since they can just reuse or copy it. Have you never played Spellbooks? Fate is the problem.

    • Anonymous

      Sure, Evilswarm isn’t as great with 1 copy, but I think that’s the point Tyree was making. If Evilswarm is a good deck at the moment, how will it play in the next format if it doesn’t get hit?
      And when I played Evilswarm, bringing out Ophion was mainly to search out my Pandemic, especially when I wasn’t playing against dragons. It can still function as a decent deck without it. The deck has other options, such as Bahamut (pseudo Big Eye) and quick access to Rank 4’s.

      Btw, Judgment is a quick-play; it can’t be copied with Master. Sure, it can be re-used, but so can Fate.
      Personally, I think Secrets is the biggest problem. Not only can you search out 95% of your deck, you can search out a MONSTER that ALSO searches out 95% of your deck.

      lol just my 2cents… I don’t mean any disrespect.

    • AliasNorth

      Judgment at 1 will stop them from going off and setting a Judgment to just plus off of your own spells. Have you ever been ANY deck at all playing under an opponent’s Judgment? Any spell you play, they’re going to gain double the advantage from it. Sure, they can recycle it with Tower, but then that means they’ll have to use Batel or Secrets to search it, which drains resources, which is the primary goal of limiting Secrets and Judgment.

      Spellbook of the Masters can only copy Normal Spellbook Spell Cards. Have you never played Spellbooks?